I mean, that's what I was leaning towards as well.
So two things. First, have you noticed there's been a huge backlash against Occupy Wall Street and also SlutWalk (Occupy Wall Street for disgustingly typical they-are-lazy-socialist-bums-who-are-destroying-America reasons, and SlutWalk for more nuanced classism/racism reasons), but also there was a lot of tension between the two yesterday? Second, would you be interested in going down to Wall Street sometime soon? I've been dying to see what the situation is.
I can't say that I know for sure why there is a conflict between the Slut Walk and Occupy Wall Street. But, I can say that I would not be surprised if my assumption on the matter is 100 percent correct. When listening to the speakers at the Slut walk my first thought was, "With all the REAL problems going on in the world is this really your priority right now?" My second thought was, "If these people really want to represent a worthy cause they should get their butts down to Occupy Wall Street." Now I am sure you want to know why I have such little respect for the Slut Walk. This is my answer...
If this was a walk to try and bring attention to the amount of women raped every year in the United States I would applaud it. But, NO.... This is a movement to try and make people aware of the fact that women who get raped don't deserve to be raped. It is also a backlash against those who believe that women should not dress in as revealing a manner as many do in today's world.
They are angry because a cop who was TRYING TO DO HIS JOB warned a woman that if she did not cover up she could be at risk of getting raped. This cop is not a bad man. He is not racist. He is not a rapist. He is not even necessarily anti-feminist. He did not realize that most women who get raped are not dressed in a revealing manner. By Slut walk criticizing a man like that they are alienating people who might otherwise have been their allies and they are alienating good people.
The conclusion of one of the speakers was that all men and cops are evil which even alienated men who were standing there agreeing with everything she said previously. So, after alienating many people which proved that this woman's lack of intelligence she left the stage without revealing any sort of plan for how to address what she considered to be problems with society.
Well, lets pretend someone in charge of that protest possessed a fully functional brain. If that were the case they would have had a plan for how to address these grievances. Such a plan probably would have included putting pressure on the NYPD to better educate it's cops so that they are aware of the fact that telling a girl to cover up could be considered immoral or inappropriate. However, if the NYPD were to take this advice it would cost money. Even if it's only a minimal amount, some would be necessary to organize a workshop of some sort.
Well, WHY WOULD WE WASTE MONEY ON THAT COURSE WHEN WE CAN PUT IT INTO MORE PATROLLING OF DANGEROUS AREAS TO PREVENT RAPE IN THE FIRST PLACE??????????????????????????????
If i were at Occupy Wall Street and saw the Slut Walk take the focus off of what I was doing I would be pissed. Also, the Slut Walk which, make no mistake about it, was very much an embarrassment to serious protesters everywhere who are actually trying to make a significant difference in the world, was a joke. It probably gave Occupy Wall Street's critics an opportunity to try and associate the two protests with being ran by similar kinds of people which would then hurt Occupy Wall Street's reputation.
I do take a harsh stance with people who jump to criticize cops. Maybe people forget, but I certainly don't, how admirably the NYPD acted during 9/11. Yes, there are bad cops. But, I have met bad people in every profession and in all walks of life. I would not advocate defending a cop who has clearly done something that is inappropriate. But, I am disgusted by the general lack of respect that NYU students and many liberal minded thinkers have for cops. Most cops are good people trying to support their families while also risking their lives every single day to keep our streets safe. Even when the NYPD does something that offends people we must not jump to the conclusion that the NYPD is evil. We must step back and consider the fact that maybe our elected officials are failing to do their jobs by allowing such corruption to survive in the police force. In this city especially, we see how much power the Mayor has over the police force. And yet, we jump down the NYPD's throats and allow Bloomberg to stay in office again? REALLY????????
Oh and in case you were wondering... I admire what Occupy Wall Street is trying to do. Unlike the Slut Walk, I don't roll my eyes at Occupy Wall Street or have anything but complete respect for what they are trying to do. The reason for this is because I believe that they have goals and a strategy for how to attain them and, unlike the Slut Walk, it has to do with IMPORTANTS issue that SHOULD be addressed immediately.
That being said, I don't necessarily agree with Occupy Wall Street. I do acknowledge that something must be done because the country is in trouble. I don't think their plan is the best way to go about fixing the country. But, at least they are making an effort and have a well thought out plan that could, possibly, be beneficial for the country.
So, first thing: "With all the REAL problems going on in the world is this really your priority right now?"... did you have a thought after this that said, it's a REAL problem. In parts of the country sexual assault rates are actually rising. It may be because sexual assault is occurring, or it may because agencies like the FBI are getting rid of outdated definitions that only cover "forced penetrative sex," leaving out roofies, sodomy, coercion, and a bunch of others. I mean, let's simply talk about it on a college campus level. 1 in 4 women will be assault during their academic career. More than 70% knew their attacker, and nearly 50% didn't believe what happened to them--despite being easily defined as rape--was rape. Because we live in a victim-blaming, rape culture. Which, if we continue to ignore will go on, or get worse.
Second, the original statement of Slutwalk was "We are tired of being oppressed by slut-shaming; of being judged by our sexuality and feeling unsafe as a result. Being in charge of our sexual lives should not mean that we are opening ourselves to an expectation of violence, regardless if we participate in sex for pleasure or work. No one should equate enjoying sex with attracting sexual assault." It's not about wearing revealing clothing, it's about the fact that, though women are most often the victims of rape--unless in a jail setting, where over 20% of men are raped which one of the "idiot" speakers pointed out--and sexual assault, they have to take responsibility for it as well. If she didn't wear this, if she didn't do that... If the man didn't rape her, it wouldn't have happened. It's about correctly appropriating responsibility.
The cop was acting in a horrible manner by trying to police behavior and dress, though not necessarily not intentional. Really, intentionality shouldn't matter that much. But it is not about that; it's about the perpetuation of rape culture and, again, victim-blaming. By telling women what they can and cannot wear he is saying, of course, that if they choose to wear what he suggested they shouldn't and they get raped the fault is on them. Because they knew, and they were asking for it. (This is about a different crime, but try to understand rape culture for a moment: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201103/she-had-it-coming-is-rape-culture-growing)
No speaker ever said men were evil. Ever. She said that she was tired of sex being treated as a commodity which led to objectification of women which led to rape that was mostly done by men (corporations are dominated by men; assaults are committed by men). But most of the speakers were positive about men. In fact, right after you left a man spoke. She alienated you. She didn't alienate a gender. (Also, it was the ISO thing, wasn't it? because if you look through history gender inequality began with the advent of a hunting culture, then an industrialized culture)
Also, stop attacking the woman; it's rude to her. You disagree, but she's not an idiot.
And yes, the cops should be putting their money to be patrolling for a rapist instead of, say, telling women what to wear. Are you also aware that they have ENTIRELY ignored multiple calls about potential assault, and one case of public exposure (sex crimes escalate, remember)... so, yes, patrolling for rapists might be a good place to put their money.
Also, Slutwalk was against Occupy Wall Street, not the other way around. Plus, Slutwalk was planned months in advance, if anything, Occupy Wall Street was drawing attention from them.
And generalizations. Cops can be good people, but they haven't been doing well for themselves lately. Also, you mention Bloomberg? Can we talk about how the NYPD is in his pocket? Or the fact that they called in MULTIPLE buses before the Brooklyn Bridge arrests suggesting they were planning it? They don't look great at this moment; it's unfortunate that we've conflated it to the entire NYPD, but it happens. There are some wonderful cops, of course. But 9-11 can't be the excuse for everything you know. How do you know the Park Slope police-officer was even helping that day? It's been ten years, Anthony, there is an entire generation of cops now on service that have nothing to do with that tragedy. Also, I respect them; it doesn't mean I like their actions.
And again, why aren't women issues important issues that should be addressed immediately. Women are raped every single day. But that isn't pressing.
And how are you, as a man, not disgusted by the police officer as well. Because the flip side is this, women can't wear revealing clothes because it'll tempt men to rape them. But all that means is that men are uncontrollably, id-driven beasts who only have to see a flash of thigh before they're driven into such a state where they are forced to rape. That's the message. Women are temptresses and men are animals. How aren't you sick with that?
I don't think it's right to judge the entire concept of Slut Walk from the 120 seconds of a speech that Anthony and I heard before we left. It's also not fair to judge an entire police force or gender based on what one cop said to one woman (and I did hear the speaker generalize, saying, "cops don't care about us.")
I think the above goes without saying.
Now then...
Even if there were a direct correlation between the way someone dressed and their likelihood of being raped, it would not be ok to pretend the rapist and victim are equally culpable and should both change their behavior.
It is NOT in a police officer's job description to tell anyone how to dress (cases of indecent exposure being the exception) and therefore it cannot be said that a cop was just "doing his job" in suggesting a woman dress less provocatively. However, I can entertain the notion that he was offering what he considered friendly, off-the-record advice. I don't know. Or care. Because this debate isn't (or shouldn't be) about one incident. It's about an idea that permeates our society and is manifested in incidents like that one. That cop is a symptom of the larger problem. But we shouldn't try to treat the symptoms.
Although I agree with Anthony that brash and inflammatory comments can be more grounded in emotion that information, I also know that nuanced commentary is not at home at rallies. Also, most social movements (effective ones at least) select a target to demonize in order to agitate and mobilize its base. And let's face it, cops are an easy target. Because:
I mean, I think the speaker was being hyperbolic. At the same time [http://www.observer.com/2011/09/is-nypd-dropping-the-ball-on-park-slope-serial-sexual-predator/] there has been talk about the cops ignoring evidence, and or not acting up to their potential to keep women safe.
I think we both basically agree, so there's not much to say. Although it should be noted that it wasn't "a cop;" there are police officers literally all over the world offering similar advice. But yes, symptomatic of a bigger problem.
Oh and the tension can be sort of discussed here: http://www.edrants.com/occupy-wall-street-slutwalk-nyc/
I don't have time to write as long a response as I want to and I didn't read Caitlin's post yet but I do want to say this. The woman I heard 1000 PERCENT SAID "THERE IS NO COP OR MAN WE CAN TRUST!" I WISH I TAPE RECORDED IT BECAUSE SHE DID! She did not exactly say men were evil but implied it. And, perhaps you didn't realize because you were standing there but as I left I saw several men walking out on the rally. So, YES, men were alienated.
Also, I have EVERY RIGHT to call her an idiot. She, virtue of leading a rally, has become a public figure and is, therefore, open to such criticisms. You and Caitlin don't hesitate to make jokes about President Bush even though it is disrespectful to him because he is a public figure. So, I am well within my right to criticize her intelligence!
One other thing... Sophia you make it sound like I am saying rape is not a problem. ON THE CONTRARY!!!! I am saying that rape should be the issue and those who choose to rape or stand by and do nothing should be the villains. A cop who does not even realize that his comment could be insulting should not be the enemy. You said that intentions should not matter. Is that correct Sophia? Well in that case you would say a cop trying to do what in his mind is an act of possibly protecting a woman from or at least warning her of impending danger is a terrible thing? I am sorry but I think that his heart was in the right place and therefore he acted in a noble fashion. The enemy is the rapist and the higher-ups at the police force that are failing to educate these cops, not the cop himself.
Also Sophia you started pointing out how Mayor Bloomberg is bad. EXACTLY!!!!! YOU SAID IT YOURSELF THAT HE IS PULLING THE STRINGS!!!! SO HOW ARE THE COPS THE ENEMIES AND NOT HIM? ATTACK THE LEADER NOT THE MAN PUTTING FOOD ON THE TABLE FOR HIS FAMILY!!!!!
So, if the leader of Slut Walk actually had a brain and was not, in fact, an idiot she would be motivating people to put their energy into politics not into walking down Cooper Square half naked.
I mean... I don't have the video so I'll take your word for it. Okay, so cops can't be trusted. Fine it's a radical and untrue statement. Men can't? Okay, a little alienating but she's radical. If you stayed for more you would have realized everyone back away from this point to say "hey, men please support our cause, too."
Fine she's an idiot.
Also, "With all the REAL problems going on in the world is this really your priority right now?" Please explain to me how this does not marginalize the issue.
Anyone who willing perpetuates a system of belief that causes harm to women should be chastised, not "the enemy" but chastised. He's not noble; he's stupid. (Look! I can use the word too)
Also because we're more than capital of saying "Hey the Mayor's bad" and saying "Hey those cops who are totally raping women are bad" at the same time?
Again, if you stayed you would have noticed they all called for political or social action. Also, she wasn't the leader of Slut Walk; she was a speaker at. So, btdubs, her views weren't necessarily consistent with the rest of the movement.
Sophia, if you chastise anyone who perpetuates a system that is wrong then you do alienate most people. And, you make them less likely to be open to considering that their morals are in question. He should be educated, not chastised which was my original point. The biggest mistake that those who are well educated continue to make is that they forget that those who are not as well educated may support unjust views without being bad people. Be careful Sophia, you don't want to accidentally become a pretentious college student who thinks that the rest of the world is stupid because they lack the IQ and the opportunities that you possess.
Also, btdubbs, if the leaders of the SlutWalk put her on the podium they clearly agree with what she had to say or else they would not have put her on the podium.
And, Caitlin, I understand that most movements pick someone to demonize and I understand that the police force is an easy target. But, just because that is an effective strategy when protesting DOES NOT make it acceptable!!!!
What's more, I was to Occupy Wall Street again today, and it's getting bigger every time I visit. If you haven't had the chance yet, I'd highly recommend taking the trip.
Scott, it works out perfectly because Sophia and I never agree on anything (except food) and Caitlin is always more in the middle. So, it makes out for some awesome debate! And, yes, it is really something! I just wonder with the coming cold weather how much longer they'll be able to hold out.
The Occupy Wall Streeters should send the police thank you notes:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2011/10/wall-street-protests-commissioner-kelly-outdoes-himself.html
I mean, that's what I was leaning towards as well.
ReplyDeleteSo two things. First, have you noticed there's been a huge backlash against Occupy Wall Street and also SlutWalk (Occupy Wall Street for disgustingly typical they-are-lazy-socialist-bums-who-are-destroying-America reasons, and SlutWalk for more nuanced classism/racism reasons), but also there was a lot of tension between the two yesterday? Second, would you be interested in going down to Wall Street sometime soon? I've been dying to see what the situation is.
I was at Zucotti Park yesterday and it's definitely worth the trip.
ReplyDeleteSophia, a lot of NYU/New School/CUNY/SUNY students are going together on Wednesday.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=168561836560896
You should come if you can.
I can't say that I know for sure why there is a conflict between the Slut Walk and Occupy Wall Street. But, I can say that I would not be surprised if my assumption on the matter is 100 percent correct. When listening to the speakers at the Slut walk my first thought was, "With all the REAL problems going on in the world is this really your priority right now?" My second thought was, "If these people really want to represent a worthy cause they should get their butts down to Occupy Wall Street." Now I am sure you want to know why I have such little respect for the Slut Walk. This is my answer...
ReplyDeleteIf this was a walk to try and bring attention to the amount of women raped every year in the United States I would applaud it. But, NO.... This is a movement to try and make people aware of the fact that women who get raped don't deserve to be raped. It is also a backlash against those who believe that women should not dress in as revealing a manner as many do in today's world.
They are angry because a cop who was TRYING TO DO HIS JOB warned a woman that if she did not cover up she could be at risk of getting raped. This cop is not a bad man. He is not racist. He is not a rapist. He is not even necessarily anti-feminist. He did not realize that most women who get raped are not dressed in a revealing manner. By Slut walk criticizing a man like that they are alienating people who might otherwise have been their allies and they are alienating good people.
The conclusion of one of the speakers was that all men and cops are evil which even alienated men who were standing there agreeing with everything she said previously. So, after alienating many people which proved that this woman's lack of intelligence she left the stage without revealing any sort of plan for how to address what she considered to be problems with society.
Well, lets pretend someone in charge of that protest possessed a fully functional brain. If that were the case they would have had a plan for how to address these grievances. Such a plan probably would have included putting pressure on the NYPD to better educate it's cops so that they are aware of the fact that telling a girl to cover up could be considered immoral or inappropriate. However, if the NYPD were to take this advice it would cost money. Even if it's only a minimal amount, some would be necessary to organize a workshop of some sort.
Well, WHY WOULD WE WASTE MONEY ON THAT COURSE WHEN WE CAN PUT IT INTO MORE PATROLLING OF DANGEROUS AREAS TO PREVENT RAPE IN THE FIRST PLACE??????????????????????????????
Oh and one additional comment...
ReplyDeleteIf i were at Occupy Wall Street and saw the Slut Walk take the focus off of what I was doing I would be pissed. Also, the Slut Walk which, make no mistake about it, was very much an embarrassment to serious protesters everywhere who are actually trying to make a significant difference in the world, was a joke. It probably gave Occupy Wall Street's critics an opportunity to try and associate the two protests with being ran by similar kinds of people which would then hurt Occupy Wall Street's reputation.
And one more thing...
ReplyDeleteI do take a harsh stance with people who jump to criticize cops. Maybe people forget, but I certainly don't, how admirably the NYPD acted during 9/11. Yes, there are bad cops. But, I have met bad people in every profession and in all walks of life. I would not advocate defending a cop who has clearly done something that is inappropriate. But, I am disgusted by the general lack of respect that NYU students and many liberal minded thinkers have for cops. Most cops are good people trying to support their families while also risking their lives every single day to keep our streets safe. Even when the NYPD does something that offends people we must not jump to the conclusion that the NYPD is evil. We must step back and consider the fact that maybe our elected officials are failing to do their jobs by allowing such corruption to survive in the police force. In this city especially, we see how much power the Mayor has over the police force. And yet, we jump down the NYPD's throats and allow Bloomberg to stay in office again? REALLY????????
Oh and in case you were wondering... I admire what Occupy Wall Street is trying to do. Unlike the Slut Walk, I don't roll my eyes at Occupy Wall Street or have anything but complete respect for what they are trying to do. The reason for this is because I believe that they have goals and a strategy for how to attain them and, unlike the Slut Walk, it has to do with IMPORTANTS issue that SHOULD be addressed immediately.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I don't necessarily agree with Occupy Wall Street. I do acknowledge that something must be done because the country is in trouble. I don't think their plan is the best way to go about fixing the country. But, at least they are making an effort and have a well thought out plan that could, possibly, be beneficial for the country.
So, first thing: "With all the REAL problems going on in the world is this really your priority right now?"... did you have a thought after this that said, it's a REAL problem. In parts of the country sexual assault rates are actually rising. It may be because sexual assault is occurring, or it may because agencies like the FBI are getting rid of outdated definitions that only cover "forced penetrative sex," leaving out roofies, sodomy, coercion, and a bunch of others. I mean, let's simply talk about it on a college campus level. 1 in 4 women will be assault during their academic career. More than 70% knew their attacker, and nearly 50% didn't believe what happened to them--despite being easily defined as rape--was rape. Because we live in a victim-blaming, rape culture. Which, if we continue to ignore will go on, or get worse.
ReplyDeleteSecond, the original statement of Slutwalk was "We are tired of being oppressed by slut-shaming; of being judged by our sexuality and feeling unsafe as a result. Being in charge of our sexual lives should not mean that we are opening ourselves to an expectation of violence, regardless if we participate in sex for pleasure or work. No one should equate enjoying sex with attracting sexual assault." It's not about wearing revealing clothing, it's about the fact that, though women are most often the victims of rape--unless in a jail setting, where over 20% of men are raped which one of the "idiot" speakers pointed out--and sexual assault, they have to take responsibility for it as well. If she didn't wear this, if she didn't do that... If the man didn't rape her, it wouldn't have happened. It's about correctly appropriating responsibility.
The cop was acting in a horrible manner by trying to police behavior and dress, though not necessarily not intentional. Really, intentionality shouldn't matter that much. But it is not about that; it's about the perpetuation of rape culture and, again, victim-blaming. By telling women what they can and cannot wear he is saying, of course, that if they choose to wear what he suggested they shouldn't and they get raped the fault is on them. Because they knew, and they were asking for it. (This is about a different crime, but try to understand rape culture for a moment: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201103/she-had-it-coming-is-rape-culture-growing)
No speaker ever said men were evil. Ever. She said that she was tired of sex being treated as a commodity which led to objectification of women which led to rape that was mostly done by men (corporations are dominated by men; assaults are committed by men). But most of the speakers were positive about men. In fact, right after you left a man spoke. She alienated you. She didn't alienate a gender. (Also, it was the ISO thing, wasn't it? because if you look through history gender inequality began with the advent of a hunting culture, then an industrialized culture)
Also, stop attacking the woman; it's rude to her. You disagree, but she's not an idiot.
And yes, the cops should be putting their money to be patrolling for a rapist instead of, say, telling women what to wear. Are you also aware that they have ENTIRELY ignored multiple calls about potential assault, and one case of public exposure (sex crimes escalate, remember)... so, yes, patrolling for rapists might be a good place to put their money.
Also, Slutwalk was against Occupy Wall Street, not the other way around. Plus, Slutwalk was planned months in advance, if anything, Occupy Wall Street was drawing attention from them.
ReplyDeleteAnd generalizations. Cops can be good people, but they haven't been doing well for themselves lately. Also, you mention Bloomberg? Can we talk about how the NYPD is in his pocket? Or the fact that they called in MULTIPLE buses before the Brooklyn Bridge arrests suggesting they were planning it? They don't look great at this moment; it's unfortunate that we've conflated it to the entire NYPD, but it happens. There are some wonderful cops, of course. But 9-11 can't be the excuse for everything you know. How do you know the Park Slope police-officer was even helping that day? It's been ten years, Anthony, there is an entire generation of cops now on service that have nothing to do with that tragedy. Also, I respect them; it doesn't mean I like their actions.
And again, why aren't women issues important issues that should be addressed immediately. Women are raped every single day. But that isn't pressing.
And how are you, as a man, not disgusted by the police officer as well. Because the flip side is this, women can't wear revealing clothes because it'll tempt men to rape them. But all that means is that men are uncontrollably, id-driven beasts who only have to see a flash of thigh before they're driven into such a state where they are forced to rape. That's the message. Women are temptresses and men are animals. How aren't you sick with that?
I don't think it's right to judge the entire concept of Slut Walk from the 120 seconds of a speech that Anthony and I heard before we left. It's also not fair to judge an entire police force or gender based on what one cop said to one woman (and I did hear the speaker generalize, saying, "cops don't care about us.")
ReplyDeleteI think the above goes without saying.
Now then...
Even if there were a direct correlation between the way someone dressed and their likelihood of being raped, it would not be ok to pretend the rapist and victim are equally culpable and should both change their behavior.
It is NOT in a police officer's job description to tell anyone how to dress (cases of indecent exposure being the exception) and therefore it cannot be said that a cop was just "doing his job" in suggesting a woman dress less provocatively. However, I can entertain the notion that he was offering what he considered friendly, off-the-record advice. I don't know. Or care. Because this debate isn't (or shouldn't be) about one incident. It's about an idea that permeates our society and is manifested in incidents like that one. That cop is a symptom of the larger problem. But we shouldn't try to treat the symptoms.
Although I agree with Anthony that brash and inflammatory comments can be more grounded in emotion that information, I also know that nuanced commentary is not at home at rallies. Also, most social movements (effective ones at least) select a target to demonize in order to agitate and mobilize its base. And let's face it, cops are an easy target. Because:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G63FEamhpA0&feature=related
http://gawker.com/5825010/police-beat-gentle-homeless-mentally-ill-man-to-death
http://www.pbs.org/pov/everymothersson/
I did not know about the tension between Slut Walk and Occupy Wall Street. Can anyone provide a helpful link?
I mean, I think the speaker was being hyperbolic. At the same time [http://www.observer.com/2011/09/is-nypd-dropping-the-ball-on-park-slope-serial-sexual-predator/] there has been talk about the cops ignoring evidence, and or not acting up to their potential to keep women safe.
ReplyDeleteI think we both basically agree, so there's not much to say. Although it should be noted that it wasn't "a cop;" there are police officers literally all over the world offering similar advice. But yes, symptomatic of a bigger problem.
Oh and the tension can be sort of discussed here: http://www.edrants.com/occupy-wall-street-slutwalk-nyc/
I don't have time to write as long a response as I want to and I didn't read Caitlin's post yet but I do want to say this. The woman I heard 1000 PERCENT SAID "THERE IS NO COP OR MAN WE CAN TRUST!" I WISH I TAPE RECORDED IT BECAUSE SHE DID! She did not exactly say men were evil but implied it. And, perhaps you didn't realize because you were standing there but as I left I saw several men walking out on the rally. So, YES, men were alienated.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I have EVERY RIGHT to call her an idiot. She, virtue of leading a rally, has become a public figure and is, therefore, open to such criticisms. You and Caitlin don't hesitate to make jokes about President Bush even though it is disrespectful to him because he is a public figure. So, I am well within my right to criticize her intelligence!
One other thing... Sophia you make it sound like I am saying rape is not a problem. ON THE CONTRARY!!!! I am saying that rape should be the issue and those who choose to rape or stand by and do nothing should be the villains. A cop who does not even realize that his comment could be insulting should not be the enemy. You said that intentions should not matter. Is that correct Sophia? Well in that case you would say a cop trying to do what in his mind is an act of possibly protecting a woman from or at least warning her of impending danger is a terrible thing? I am sorry but I think that his heart was in the right place and therefore he acted in a noble fashion. The enemy is the rapist and the higher-ups at the police force that are failing to educate these cops, not the cop himself.
ReplyDeleteAlso Sophia you started pointing out how Mayor Bloomberg is bad. EXACTLY!!!!! YOU SAID IT YOURSELF THAT HE IS PULLING THE STRINGS!!!! SO HOW ARE THE COPS THE ENEMIES AND NOT HIM? ATTACK THE LEADER NOT THE MAN PUTTING FOOD ON THE TABLE FOR HIS FAMILY!!!!!
ALSO, I MAY NOTE, A LEADER THAT WE THE PEOPLE PUT IN POWER!!!!
ReplyDeleteSo, if the leader of Slut Walk actually had a brain and was not, in fact, an idiot she would be motivating people to put their energy into politics not into walking down Cooper Square half naked.
ReplyDeleteI mean... I don't have the video so I'll take your word for it. Okay, so cops can't be trusted. Fine it's a radical and untrue statement. Men can't? Okay, a little alienating but she's radical. If you stayed for more you would have realized everyone back away from this point to say "hey, men please support our cause, too."
ReplyDeleteFine she's an idiot.
Also, "With all the REAL problems going on in the world is this really your priority right now?" Please explain to me how this does not marginalize the issue.
Anyone who willing perpetuates a system of belief that causes harm to women should be chastised, not "the enemy" but chastised. He's not noble; he's stupid. (Look! I can use the word too)
Also because we're more than capital of saying "Hey the Mayor's bad" and saying "Hey those cops who are totally raping women are bad" at the same time?
Again, if you stayed you would have noticed they all called for political or social action. Also, she wasn't the leader of Slut Walk; she was a speaker at. So, btdubs, her views weren't necessarily consistent with the rest of the movement.
Sophia, if you chastise anyone who perpetuates a system that is wrong then you do alienate most people. And, you make them less likely to be open to considering that their morals are in question. He should be educated, not chastised which was my original point. The biggest mistake that those who are well educated continue to make is that they forget that those who are not as well educated may support unjust views without being bad people. Be careful Sophia, you don't want to accidentally become a pretentious college student who thinks that the rest of the world is stupid because they lack the IQ and the opportunities that you possess.
ReplyDeleteAlso, btdubbs, if the leaders of the SlutWalk put her on the podium they clearly agree with what she had to say or else they would not have put her on the podium.
And, Caitlin, I understand that most movements pick someone to demonize and I understand that the police force is an easy target. But, just because that is an effective strategy when protesting DOES NOT make it acceptable!!!!
ReplyDeleteWOW. I'm glad you're all such good friends. You can really dish it out!
ReplyDeleteWhat's more, I was to Occupy Wall Street again today, and it's getting bigger every time I visit. If you haven't had the chance yet, I'd highly recommend taking the trip.
ReplyDeleteScott, it works out perfectly because Sophia and I never agree on anything (except food) and Caitlin is always more in the middle. So, it makes out for some awesome debate! And, yes, it is really something! I just wonder with the coming cold weather how much longer they'll be able to hold out.
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